Looking for scoring software

[crusty]

I want to get back into scoring and I need some software that will allow me to compose full orchestral scores and print out a conductor's score and parts. I also want to play stuff back using MIDI. Anyone know of any good ones?

[Eclectifish]

If you've got the bucks, there's some good stuff out there. If you're poor (like me) take a look at Geniesoft Scorewriter (http://www.geniesoft.com). It takes a little getting used to but works pretty well if you can get past a few idiosyncracies, and I don't think there's anything comparable in the price range...

except, maybe...

Rosegarden.

I threw that in there because I've just started using it a little. I'm not really wild about it yet, but it seems like there might be some decent power there. For one thing, it does a really nice job of reading in a MIDI file and quantizing it to a readable score. The deal is, it's Linux only. What I do is to write my music in a MIDI sequencer and export it to a standard .mid file. Then, I grab a Knoppix bootable CD and run Rosegarden. Knoppix is Linux on a single bootable CD -- just start the computer with CD in drive and presto: you've got Linux -- and it comes with Rosegarden http://www.knoppix.net -- and of course, it's only the cost of the download. Anyway, I think Scorewriter is a little better, but I really haven't gotten into Rosegarden and it advertises some very nice features -- besides, free is good.

[crusty]

Thanks Eclectifish,

I'm downloading both the Scorewriter and Overture demos to try them out - thanks for the tip. I'm also going to try the Finale Allegro demo - it also looks pretty good. I've heard of Rosegarden, but I'd like to keep all my music SW in Windows just to keep my life less complicated. I may check out the Knoppix Linux version though - sounds interresting.

[crowbarr]

you can't go wrong with sibelius....

[JamminMark]

Only thing i've ever seen/used is Guitar Pro which has drums/bass/guitar everything on it but i'm not sure if that's exactly what your looking for? I suppose it is though, you can put up notes, or tab things out, add effects, etc. Plays things out in midi as well.

All i've seen so far though, great for learning songs with it follows the tab/notes

[Eclectifish]

Originally Posted by crowbarr

you can't go wrong with sibelius....

True, Sibelius probably is the best if you've got that kind of money. I think I'll download G7 just to see, though.

[JonR]

Sibelius is the best.
But I've also used Mozart, which is much cheaper, and may do all you want.

http://www.mozart.co.uk

[crusty]

It seems a lot of people feel Sibelius is the best. When I was at school (won't say how many years ago ) Finale was THE software to use. Anybody know if Sibelius is really better than Finale? (They both sell for about the same price and seem to have about comparable features). I think I might occasionally need more than 16 staves - which is the limit of ScoreWritter. Mozart looks pretty good (it allows up to 64), I'm going to download the trial version. It might be what I'm looking for.

[crusty]

Electifish:

The documentation for score writer say this:

256 staves with 4 voices per stave
16 staves per system, unlimited number of systems

Does this mean that in one piece of music you can have up to 256 staves, but only 16 can show up on a single page?

Also question for both JonR and Electifish about both ScoreWriter and Mozart:

Is it possible to insert a MIDI program change in the middle of a score? Say I want to have my violins start playing pizzicato halfway through, with MIDI I'd have to change programs, but I'd like to keep the score realistic and use the one staff.

Also does anyone know if there's a way of increasing my sound library using VST sounds with these or other scoring packages?

[JonR]

Not sure about MIDI program changes in Mozart. What you can do is put two "strands" on the same stave, so I imagine you could have a pizzicato sound assigned to one strand and a bowed sound on the other, and just switch the notes from one to the other.
Mozart has a great advice discussion group (where the designer David Webber himself often posts) where you'd get a definite answer.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mozart_software/

JonR

[crusty]

Thanks JonR,

I've joined that discussion group, and I'm going to try your suggestion. Here's another question. I tried something simple using eight notes and played it back. I then added a slur over the phrase and expected to hear a more legatto/slurred sound, but it sounded no different. Is this a typical limitation, or do you think it had something to do with the MIDI sound I was using?

[JonR]

Notation programs interpret slurs in specific ways. Generally, non-slurred notes have a small gap between them (A few midi note-length units, I think). Adding a slur reduces that gap, but (AFAIK) not always to zero. (Someone in the Mozart advice group will no doubt give you the full low-down.)

But even if the gap was zero, for a slur to sound correct the attack portion of the note would need to be different. If the second of 2 slurred notes has the same attack as the first, it won't sound slurred, even if there is no gap between them.
E.g., a slur on guitar is done by a hammer-on or pull-off. So you don't get a pick sound - that's how you hear it's a slur. On a wind instrument you wouldn't get the breath effect between the notes. Etc.

A slur on notation software, therefore, would need to specify a different instrument sample - to send a MIDI instruction to choose a sample with no attack, just for the 2nd note (or any subsequent notes under a phrase mark). And then revert to the standard sound (including attack) for new notes.
I guess this is technically possible. But I imagine you'd need a synth/souncard set up with that capability - as well as software that would automatically send those instructions. (It's not the same thing as a velocity change, which is a change in dynamics or loudness.)

It's an issue I've been thinking about myself (perhaps the main cause of lack of realism in MIDI sequenced music), and I'd be interested if anyone more knowledgable than me about MIDI has any thoughts...

JonR

[crusty]

Thanks JonR, I'll have to do a bit more research.

[crusty]

JonR:

I spent the weekend trying out Mozart. Pretty cool, but the piece I've been entering has some double sharps. I know they're supposed to be there cause I wrote it. When I select the note and press the '+' to sharpen it the highest it will go is single sharp.

Is there any way to stop it from automatically filling in rests for the rest of the bar? When I enter a few notes which cover one beat I try to copy those notes and paste them in for beats 2,3, and 4 but it won't let me, and says the bar's already full

I had a problem with that Mozart discussion group: I recieved an e-mail notification for every message posted - (64 messages in my inbox this morning!) very annoying. I unsubscribed from notification, but I think I was removed from the group

[Eclectifish]

For a MIDI program change in score writer, I do the same thing that JonR suggested for Mozart, use two different strands (voices is the term used in Scorewriter). There probably is a way to insert a program change, It's just easier to use the voice instead.

As far as the number of staves per page, I'm sorry but I don't know. I've never tried to put more than 16 on a page. I would imagine, however, that it's a function of the printout size.

BTW, I've downloaded the Mozart trial and I'm trying it out. I find it very similar to score writer in functionality. I haven't tried any of the more advanced features yet, but I'm interested in seeing how Mozart does. Last spring cleaning, my ScoreWriter CD got lost, so I'm going to have to buy anew, and I'll take a long look at Mozart. One thing I've noticed so far though is that in Mozart you can't drag a note to a new location whereas you can in Scorewriter. Scorewriter also seems a bit easier to use for copying and pasting. On the other hand, basic note entry is definitely easier in Mozart.